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	<title>Comments on: Hydroponic Vertical Farming for Urban Populations</title>
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	<link>http://www.beamingsun.com/sunpress/2009/03/03/hydroponic-vertical-farming-for-urban-populations.html</link>
	<description>Advances in Energy Efficiency, Resource Conservation, and Sustainable Renewable Energy</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.beamingsun.com/sunpress/2009/03/03/hydroponic-vertical-farming-for-urban-populations.html/comment-page-1#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cool idea, but I have never seen pictures or evidence of an actual working system, stacked as in the illustrations. Has anyone out there? There is little or no real world data on how many crop turns, what kind of volume, kind of crops, ease of harvesting/planting, quality of produce using HID lighting. Even though it&#039;s called Organa, there is no evidence that an organic nutrient is being used (hence non sustainable). Can you imagine growing tomatoes in those? 

The powerpoint had all the usual compelling data justifying the benefits of urban horticulture, very nicely done, but there again... no images of a working system. Can you imagine how you would even deal with a powdery mildew problem? Or an insect infestation? Spores, molds, bugs are predominant life forms... they will enter the system when you&#039;re dealing with that volume of produce and consistent environments. I have seen it over and over again.

The design, in my opinion has too many variables, to many moving parts, too difficult to isolate problems when they arise... and they will... guaranteed... life will find a way.

Phytofarms in DeKalb IL was an attempt at industrial horticulture in closed environments. They were bold, made a lot of mistakes and failed. I see many of them being reproduced in this design. I just don&#039;t see how no sun and the practicality of sustainability can co exist. The waste of one system must be nourishment for the next. I don&#039;t see any of that in the OGS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool idea, but I have never seen pictures or evidence of an actual working system, stacked as in the illustrations. Has anyone out there? There is little or no real world data on how many crop turns, what kind of volume, kind of crops, ease of harvesting/planting, quality of produce using HID lighting. Even though it&#8217;s called Organa, there is no evidence that an organic nutrient is being used (hence non sustainable). Can you imagine growing tomatoes in those? </p>
<p>The powerpoint had all the usual compelling data justifying the benefits of urban horticulture, very nicely done, but there again&#8230; no images of a working system. Can you imagine how you would even deal with a powdery mildew problem? Or an insect infestation? Spores, molds, bugs are predominant life forms&#8230; they will enter the system when you&#8217;re dealing with that volume of produce and consistent environments. I have seen it over and over again.</p>
<p>The design, in my opinion has too many variables, to many moving parts, too difficult to isolate problems when they arise&#8230; and they will&#8230; guaranteed&#8230; life will find a way.</p>
<p>Phytofarms in DeKalb IL was an attempt at industrial horticulture in closed environments. They were bold, made a lot of mistakes and failed. I see many of them being reproduced in this design. I just don&#8217;t see how no sun and the practicality of sustainability can co exist. The waste of one system must be nourishment for the next. I don&#8217;t see any of that in the OGS.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Lessler</title>
		<link>http://www.beamingsun.com/sunpress/2009/03/03/hydroponic-vertical-farming-for-urban-populations.html/comment-page-1#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Lessler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beamingsun.com/?p=278#comment-85</guid>
		<description>The OGS-D and OGS-E systems employ some interesting ideas that I haven&#039;t seen before. The fact that they are scalable (i.e., can be stacked to build larger systems), and that they claim to employ geotropism as a tool to improve system performance,  makes them worth investigating further. I would like to see some modeling studies that work out water, nutrients, and energy balance, to demonstrate their sustainability and environmental benefits before I would invest in buying one to use, but the results of any such studies may be proprietary.

Still, these systems are but one of a number of possible approaches that may be employed in vertical farming. They may be found to be very good applications for growing certain kinds of crops, but not good for others.  Perhaps, these or other systems may be superior for managing pests or for optimizing the use of natural sunlight. There is much that needs to be learned as these and other technological approaches are tried in the broader context of vertical farming, where urban planning on using city spaces, recycling city water, and providing appropriate nutrients have to be worked out and tweaked for purposes of efficiency. But, we won&#039;t learn these things until someone tries to make a commercial success of vertical farming, so the OGS-D and OGS-E systems may be a good start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The OGS-D and OGS-E systems employ some interesting ideas that I haven&#8217;t seen before. The fact that they are scalable (i.e., can be stacked to build larger systems), and that they claim to employ geotropism as a tool to improve system performance,  makes them worth investigating further. I would like to see some modeling studies that work out water, nutrients, and energy balance, to demonstrate their sustainability and environmental benefits before I would invest in buying one to use, but the results of any such studies may be proprietary.</p>
<p>Still, these systems are but one of a number of possible approaches that may be employed in vertical farming. They may be found to be very good applications for growing certain kinds of crops, but not good for others.  Perhaps, these or other systems may be superior for managing pests or for optimizing the use of natural sunlight. There is much that needs to be learned as these and other technological approaches are tried in the broader context of vertical farming, where urban planning on using city spaces, recycling city water, and providing appropriate nutrients have to be worked out and tweaked for purposes of efficiency. But, we won&#8217;t learn these things until someone tries to make a commercial success of vertical farming, so the OGS-D and OGS-E systems may be a good start.</p>
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		<title>By: Noddack</title>
		<link>http://www.beamingsun.com/sunpress/2009/03/03/hydroponic-vertical-farming-for-urban-populations.html/comment-page-1#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Noddack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Novel Idea. Came up with something similar last night in a dream. With the exception of course that there was no consideration to include raising animals, for obvious reasons that they present a excess toll on resources and are not necessary for a sustainable diet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Novel Idea. Came up with something similar last night in a dream. With the exception of course that there was no consideration to include raising animals, for obvious reasons that they present a excess toll on resources and are not necessary for a sustainable diet.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.beamingsun.com/sunpress/2009/03/03/hydroponic-vertical-farming-for-urban-populations.html/comment-page-1#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 01:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beamingsun.com/?p=278#comment-82</guid>
		<description>What do you think of the PP presentation
http://www.organagardens.com/presentation-en.cfm
and the 
Discovery (OGS-D) Enterprise (OGS-E) as described here:
http://www.organagardens.com/organa.cfm

Much of your description and material seems aligned with OGNG&#039;s presentation. Do you think their vertical garden wheels are feasible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think of the PP presentation<br />
<a href="http://www.organagardens.com/presentation-en.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.organagardens.com/presentation-en.cfm</a><br />
and the<br />
Discovery (OGS-D) Enterprise (OGS-E) as described here:<br />
<a href="http://www.organagardens.com/organa.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.organagardens.com/organa.cfm</a></p>
<p>Much of your description and material seems aligned with OGNG&#8217;s presentation. Do you think their vertical garden wheels are feasible?</p>
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